Question. Mr. Mnatsakanyan, you said that your grandfather and grandmother are from Van and Bitlis, and from that perspective you are also a descendant of the genocide survivors. What emotions do you have today?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. There are a lot of emotions. And the most important was the one I felt amid the centennial of the Armenian Genocide, the feeling of a winner. Indeed this is one of today’s messages for me. 

In fact, the messages of this day are numerous. The first is that even 105 years later, the fourth-fifth generations of genocide survivors demand justice with the same determination. We all, as a united nation, demand justice, we demand recognition. This demonstrates the depth of this crime of genocide, the depth of the damage done to an entire nation, because the denied justice is a very deep wound and damage for an entire nation.

Another message is that 105 years ago the Armenian nation was supposed to be wiped out. Today confidently demosntrating our civilization, history, our power and capability, we have survived the genocide, we have survived everywhere our compatriots live; we survived it in our homeland as well by creating our statehood and restoring our independence.

The third important message is that statehood is a very important instrument for protecting our national identity, and the state and the power of the state are one of the most important and powerful weapons in our hands.

Petros Ghazaryan. Mr. Minister, what do we do for prevention at national and international levels? This is the most important issue we are facing in this time of Realpolitik.

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. You know, probably this is another message of this day as well: how deep is this crime of genocide with its degree of cruelty. This crime might be committed not so frequently but its consequences are so profound that its prevention is a very important issue of national and international agenda. And we, as a nation who have survived the genocide, have an obligation to promote that agenda - as a state, as a member of the international community, the UN member state.

We have an obligation to move forward and to contribute to the genocide prevention agenda. And this issue is one of the most important issues of the foreign policy of Armenia, as well as a subject of consistent work.

For twenty-two years we have been promoting within the UN the agenda of preventing genocides, crimes, and mass atrocities. In 1998 our dear friend and colleague Ashot Melik-Shahnazaryan for the first time presented an initiative on adoping a UN resolution dedicated to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide ...

Petros Ghazaryan. All over the world?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. Yes, a resolution was adopted on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Convention adopted on 9 December 1948. This moment marks the beginning of the work of Armenia's diplomacy to deepen and strengthen the prevention agenda in the international agenda. In 2008 we re-draft the resolution in such a way that attention was paid to the prevention agenda, we started deepening that ideology and making our contribution to strengthen the capacities, the instruments of international cooperation, all the possible legal and practical tools to prevent specific genocides.

The motto "Never again" is quite common, but how many times should we say "Never again"? Because the genocides have not been eliminated, the threat of genocide has not been eliminated. It starts with hatred, hate speech, human rights violations, discrimination, and its leads to the commitement of the crime of genocide.

It is possible to prevent the genocide, in an early stage to detect its tendencies, which if not prevented, can already lead to a crime. And in that sense, we are constantly working with many of our partners in the international community: with states, expert groups, special UN mechanisms, various bodies, academic circles. Together, we combine the work aimed at strengthening capacities.

Prevention begins at the national level, but international cooperation is crucial in that regard. Over the years, we have established a platform for international cooperation here in Armenia, a Global Forum on Genocide Prevention. This year we plan to hold the fourth Forum in December. We are a member of the Human Rights Council, and we plan to adopt our renewed resolution in the Human Rights Council. The process will be completed very soon.The prevention starts at national level, however international cooperation is extremely important. During these years, we here in Armenia established a platform for international cooperation - the global forum dedicated to the prevention of genocides. This December we intend to hold the fourth global forum. We are a member of the UN Human Rights Council and we have presented our updated resolution in the Human Rights Council. Very soon that process will be completed. 

Petros Ghazaryan. Mr. Mnatsakanyan, do we consider the recognition of the genocide as a part of prevention on the moral platform, on the platform of historical justice, on the platform of respecting the memory of the victims, or as a guarantee of security? That is, as long as it is not recognized, that sword is still threatening?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. All this, together, gives a meaning and reason to the importance and significance of recognition. On 2015 in Human Rights Council and then in a session of the UN General Assembly Armenia sponsored/initiatited an adoption of a resolution which declared December 9, the day of the adoption of the Convention, as the International Day of Commemoration and dignity of the Victims of Genocide. It is very important to create another opportunity, another platform to address the prevention agenda.

Respecting the dignity of the victims and commemorating the day of remembrance is very important because it is about justice, because the victims have dignity, the victims are the part of the collective identity of the people that has been annihilated. If we do not respect the victims, if we deny justice, we strengthen impunity. Impunity means that a new genocide is possible. Non-recognition of the Armenian Genocide is a threat to us in that sense, because impunity presumes the threat of genocide repetition.

Petros Ghazaryan․ Mr. Minister, you expressed an interesting idea about the danger still existing in the world today. In this case, it is very important to diversify the historical memory with real politics. We witnessed the Berlin Conference, we witnessed many international guarantees at that time, promises. On the D-day, we found ourselves left alone facing that disaster. All superpowers have their interests, and today as well, they have their own interests. From that historical memory, have we made political conclusions as a tool of real politics or we have not?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan․ I think when referring to the guarantees of the Berlin Conference of the 19th century, we should remember that the Armenian people did not have a statehood at that time. Today we have a statehood. Today, the state is a very powerful tool in our hands to protect and strengthen our identity, being an independent sovereign subject of international relations.

The use of this powerful tool is a very important defense instrument. But I would like to reiterate that a powerful state, a strong state, our inner strength, strengthens our capacity to protect our sovereignty, our national identity and our security. But we also understand that, yes, quite different processes took place in international relations, and are currently taking place, and in that sense, as a member of the international community, as a member of the international family, as a state, taking into consideration our small size, we attach great importance to cooperation. Diplomacy, involvement in international relations, multilateralism, all these are also very important tools for us to ensure and complement our security capabilities.

Petros Ghazaryan. Do I understand it correctly: when you say state, you mean that we are aware that in those moments we have to save ourselves? Powerful state, powerful army. These are our only guarantees.

Zohran Mnatsakanyan. Definitely, a powerful army, a powerful state, powerful state institutions, a strong civil society, a solid national unity: these are the capabilities of the state and our nation. We also have many other capacities, many other national institutions within our state. The capacities of our Diaspora in institutional terms are also of great importance because our Diaspora is unique: it doesn’t merely represent collective communities, but also communities with institutional capabilities, which further strengthen our consolidation. And all this is carried out through our internal pan-national debate, by investing our potential, by strengthening our collective capacities. I think this is a nationwide agenda for all of us.

Petros Ghazaryan. Mr. Minister, when we take a glance at the Armenia-Turkey relations that have not existed for many years, our position has always been that, if we more or less generalize the wording, Armenia is ready to normalize relations with Turkey without preconditions. Turkey is increasing the preconditions almost on a daily basis: whether it is about Artsakh or a group of historians, or the territories. Their appetite is growing day by day, so to say, their list is expanding, while Armenia keeps reiterating its readiness to normalize relations without preconditions. If we look at this continuous policy, which has a positive effect, it does not affect Turkey's behavior. Isn’t it the time for Armenia to change its longtime policy, because in terms of efficiency, if we look at it, the Turks are only tightening their grip and trying to get involved in other issues?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan: Each step in politics should be based on a calm and balanced calculation, and this is going to be our approach regarding the relations. Along with the fact of denied justice, Turkey undertakes other steps to aggravate the issue: the closed border and the unconditional support of Azerbaijan regarding the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. All these circumstances together pose a threat to us and we address the threat in a way the state should do - based on a cold and balanced calculation, we ensure our national security. We undertake every necessary step aimed at serving our national interests.

Petros Ghazaryan․ Today, Erdogan's spokesman and chief adviser Ibrahim Kalin addressed the issue of the Armenian Genocide, once again using their entire vocabulary, which they have been repeating for so many years and made a reference to the 2009 protocols. He said that Armenia took steps to reject the political-economic settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, the establishment of peace and stability in the South Caucasus. They made an attempt to do that, that step, and Armenia rejected that proposal.

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. You know, I think it doesn't bring us honor to even discuss this distorted interpretation, because we know the history very well. For its part, Armenia contributed as a state that represents a people who survived the genocide, and invested in that process to the end. And you remember very well that it was the subject of very nationwide, deep and very difficult discussions. And by doing all that, what did we achieve? We came to the point when Turkey, in fact, just threw it all through the window. And this once again shows that the threat is deep. And the rest of the comments that have been made are already compounding, deepening the denial, because the denial of the genocide is followed by justification. All this together turns into impunity and threat.

Petros Ghazaryan. You said that Armenia conducts works in the international arena, within the UN, in various international structures. Mr. Minister, we live in the 21st century. Technology, human rights, people are literate, they are enlightened, we have different international organizations, globalization, etc., but you say that even now the genocide is possible. How come, Mr. Minister? We live in the age of human rights, we live in the age of information, if it was very easy to hide before, and the heroism of individuals was required, as in the early 20th century, to speak about what was happening. But now the whole world gets the first information in a minute. How is that possible now?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan: Of course I salute your optimism, but the protection of human rights still remains a very important issue on national and international agendas. If we try to recall, we will see that the genocidal acts in Balkans were committed in our days, as well as the genocide in Rwanda, the developments with different genocidal tendencies took place recently. Those risks, those dangers, when human rights serve as a cover up for targeting vulnerable groups, discrimination and hatred based on ethnic and religious grounds - all these happen nowadays, and the examples are many. If left unprevented, they could lead to the commitment of genocide. I repeat, let's not forget that there were genocides that took place during our time.

Petros Ghazaryan. Mr. Minister, it is not a secret that the world is driven by interests, all of them, superpowers and small powers, have their own interests, and it is in this logic that genocides are possible. One is silent, one is secretly supporting, one is busy. After all, is this an issue of the system of values and whether the world has changed today or not?

Zohrab Mnatsakanyan. Now more than before, we are experiencing a period when a single virus poses a challenge for the whole world and undermines the very foundations on which we have built our international life, our international cooperation. Yes, the world is going through a very serious ordeal today. To what extent can we work together in the midst of this virus, how will we work together after it, when the situation returns more or less to its normalcy? In our foreign policy, our international agenda is based on and remains a value-based, cooperative approach. No country alone can work against the many challenges we are facing globally. Especially for countries like ours, cooperation is more than important. This is a challenge. And yes, you are right the interest-based world has its own logic where the cooperation can be undermined by those challenges, when the cooperational spirit is unstable and narrow interests bring additional challenges. This is an issue and it should be addressed.

Petros Ghazaryan: I thank you, Mr. Minister.